Twitter breeds some ridiculous arguments from time-to-time and the following rebuttal is to @NerdNumbers’ assertion that Ty Lawson is better than Russell Westbrook is no different. It started innocently enough, in which, I posed a question to Twitter; I inquired which scoring point guard would they build a team around — granted that Rose is still rehabilitating, I tweeted I was tossing between Westbrook and Lawson — and that’s when Dre The Nerd began making outlandish claims.
“Russell Westbrook is overvalues” and “Ty Lawson is better than Russell Westbrook” ……
First and foremost, let me address this: I love and admire Lawson’s game; he fits well in Denver’s system and you could point out that’s why he thrives so well. Could the same be said if he was in a slower paced system? Lawson can attack, drain the three-pointer, he sets up his teammates, and he isn’t a selfish player.
However, if you honestly believe Ty Lawson is better than Russell Westbrook, one of two things are occurring:
1.) You’re higher than J.R. Smith at a Snoop Dogg concert
Or.
2.) You are on some super level of being a homer
Pick your poison, Dre.
Statistically speaking, Westbrook averaged 23.6 points per game on 45.7% from the field, 4.6 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 1.7 steals and averaged 31.6% from downtown last season. Adversely, Lawson averaged 16.4 points per game on 48.8% from the field, 3.7 rebounds, 6.6 assists, 1.3 steals and averaged 36.5% from the perimeter.
One of Dre’s biggest complaints is that Lawson is better because his shooting efficiency is greater than Westbrook and he mentioned several times that Westbrook is a buyer in Kobe’s System: he shoots and misses a lot.
The simple fact is that Westbrook has been an above average and even good point guard but he has never been elite. Ty Lawson on the other hand has played amazingly well his entire career. Let’s do a quick breakdown.
Dre, Dre, Dre, where do I start? One HUGE arguing point he avoided is that Lawson has improved season after season; it’s not as if Lawson has been ‘OH EM GEE THAT’S THE BEST POINT GUARD EVER” his entire career. Dre is painting a one-sided picture, that makes him look like he’s crushing on Lawson.
Dre does go on to state their wins produced over the years:
Lawson WP: 2010: 4.9, 2011: 8.5, 2012: 8.1; Westbrook’s WP: 2009: 2.5, 2010: 7.1, 2011: 9.1, 2012: 4.9.
Lawson has been a phenomenal player for Denver, no doubt about it, but to just call Westbrook ‘above average’ seems like lazy analysis, but good thing Dre goes on to why Westbrook sucks, and Lawson is G-O-D.
Now, the reason Westbrook is considered elite is because he puts up a high point totals. Last season Westbrook finished 4th in the league in points scored behind Kevin Durant, LeBron James and Kobe Bryant. The issue is when we examine Westbrook’s amazing offense it falls apart quickly. His shooting costs his teams wins. His free throw shooting keeps his scoring positive. However, he’s still half as effective at scoring as Lawson. When it comes to offense, Westbrook is bad at everything except for free throws and offensive rebounding. And those can’t make up for the his terrible passing and high turnovers. Westbrook actually keeps himself positive with his defensive skills. It’s not often I hear Westbrook praised as a defensive powerhouse.
Dre is basically calling NBA critics ‘dumb’ for believing Westbrook is elite, but misses a main arguing point. Westbrook — by nature is a shooting guard playing the pg position — has other scorers on his team — Durant, Ibaka, Harden — and has the luxury of tossing up shots. However, can the same be said for Lawson? He doesn’t have the opportunity to work along the side of one of the best players in the league, but one could argue that it would sway in Lawson’s favor as it would entail him to be more efficient with his scoring. This isn’t a bad thing, but when you don’t have elite scorers on your team, you have to be as effective as possible with your shot and that’s what Lawson does.
Is Lawson better than Westbrook?
Hell no, and Dre is absolutely high when he posted that entire article.
Now, I’m sure Dre’s next point is that Westbrook is a ballhog:
The Nuggets do have better shooters than Lawson. However, it’s not by much. That’s because Lawson is actually good at shooting and unlike Westbrook, he’s able to distribute the ball.
CALLED IT!
As aforementioned, I did state one of Lawson’s gifts is the ability to set teammates up on the offense, and that’s not Westbrook’s foray; however, it is my belief without Westbrook’s 20+ points a game OKC wouldn’t be as successful?
Notice, Dre waves off the aggressive factor for either candidate; aggressiveness is huge in many of the run-and-gun teams and multiple times last season Lawson’s lack of confidence AND aggressiveness was evident and what did it amount to for Denver? Losses.
“Sure, we can fall back on the superlative test and point out that Westbrook is more aggressive than Lawson. Except, player attitudes don’t win games, playing well does.”
Except they kinda do, Dre. Mental fortitude and attitudes can be detrimental in games, in 2010-2011 Westbrook would demonstrate extreme selfishness and it *could* translate in lost game.
Dre has and will note Lawson is a better passer and more efficient shooter, which I agree with, but to make a clear statement that Lawson is the most obvious pick over Westbrook is absurd.
Dre is also absolving another important factor for Westbrook and that’s when shots aren’t happening for Durant or Harden, who gets the ball to make offense happen?
Dre, just let Westbrook be Westbrook.
Lawson or Westbrook?
Westbrook is insanely athletic, aggressive, confident, dangerous when attacking the basket, and just as quick — even more so — than Lawson. Westbrook has talent embedded in his muscular body that Lawson still hasn’t tapped into or maybe he doesn’t even have. That’s not even mentioning Westbrook’s explosiveness, something Lawson can’t compete with.
Remember the article Denver Post columnist, Mark Kiszla wrote in saying he’d rather have Lawson in Westbrook?
Remember basketball twitter’s reaction? I expect the same type of treatment for Dre and his crazy, THC-inducing, accusations that Westbrook is sub-par compared to Lawson.
You really believe Lawson is superior to Westbrook, @NerdNumbers, and all I need to tell you is:
You must be high.
“Westbrook is insanely athletic, aggressive, confident, dangerous when attacking the basket, and just as quick — even more so — than Lawson.” Awesome. While RW is doing all that, Ty Lawson is being a better scorer, an extremely better passer, not turning the ball over a lot and not taking shots away from Kevin Durant and James Harden who are insanely good scorers.
You somehow conclude that Lawson’s lack of aggressiveness is why Denver losses games. Would shooting more (like RW) and missing more (like RW) and turning it over more (like RW) somehow make Denver win more? Denver was half a point less efficient than OKC, and the two teams were 2nd and 3rd best in the league on offense. It’s not reasonable to say that Denver’s offense is linked to losses unless you mean to say that every team other than San Antonio and OKC has a poor offense.
Also, ummmm…”Notice, Dre doesn’t note the aggressive factor for either candidate.”
You didn’t even read the whole article that you failed at ripping apart. From Dre’s article, last paragraph: “Sure, we can fall back on the superlative test and point out that Westbrook is more aggressive than Lawson. Except, player attitudes don’t win games, playing well does.”
Thanks for commenting! Myself and Dre discussed Westbrook vs. Lawson a great deal yesterday on twitter. Many of my opinions were based on that; it may have seemed I’m not coherent and didn’t read the whole article, but I did.
I inexplicably forgot to mention, I enjoy your site, there is always interesting stuff posted. You have a fan here.
Figured here’s as good as any to reply. Yes I did get upset, especially by the follow up tweets and act poorly on Twitter (when I start to get compared to Mosi, I know i’ve gone too far.) I do feel obligated to respond directly to this article.
When you begin you do break down the stats of Lawson vs. Harden. We’ve gotten into a few arguments about this already but you can not leave out turnovers. They matter a great deal in basketball. There are a limited number of shot attempts. and a turnover just gives it away.
I’m very confused by the comment – Westbrook has the luxury of taking bad shots. I actually agree with this. On a worse team, Westbrook’s shooting would get him in trouble. On the Thunder, it goes unnoticed. But I don’t understand why that makes him better. it means he has better team mates. And while I agree, I don’t see that as something in his favor.
Your final point is on mental fortitude and how it can be important in games. I don’t disagree. Where I take offense is the lack of backup data. I actually do have a post on this coming. The question though is, can you prove that Westbrook has had more games where his mental fortitude was more crucial than Ty Lawson?
You’ve listed many positive attributes for Westbrook that make him a more skilled athlete than Lawson. But my very simple question is: Can you prove to me that these are helping his team win games?
His talent, alone makes him better Dre. The comment “Westbrook has the luxury of taking bad shots” is what it states. Westbrook has a great benefit in having Durant and Harden on his team, effective and more efficient scorers; thus, he has a fallback if he can’t hit his 20 points. Lawson HAS to be efficient. Who are his fallback? A broken Gallo, Afflalo and Harrington (last season). That was my point.
I disagree, Dre. I see that as something in his favor. That’s all Westbrook has known. His reactions and decision making has improved over the years, and that’s something you didn’t acknowledge either.
To say, just by your Wins Produced + Westbrook’s TO’s, that he’s lesser than Lawson is flawed.
Lawson went 1-for-8 last night, if that was Westbrook he would have taken over (aggressive) and scored 20 points (with turnovers, yes) and won a preseason game. That’s a DEFINING difference, for me, between the two. Lawson is not consistent.
As for proving Westbrook’s mental fortitude is more important that Lawson’s? I just did, Dre.
You both make some good points.
First of all, to make it clear, I think RW is the better player. Why? I’ll explain:
I actually don’t like his game, he is definitely a SG trying to play the point, and it can be infuriatingly fustrating when he makes poor decisions on the court. His vision is lacking, or seems to be lacking. It could just be pure selfishness, but I doubt it. When you see him throwing up bricks while a teammate sits on the perimeter waiting for the open shot, it’s pretty annoying.
HOWEVER, his pure athleticism trumps all of that. If all PG’s could have his speed, his strength, his power… Well, I guess if that were the case we wouldn’t think RW was so amazing. But not many do have it, and so RW is considered extraordinary. There are two PGs that come close to him in these areas: Rose and Wall.
Wall is developing slowly due to the players surrounding him, and I honestly feel for him as an athlete. He is in a tough situation, and his progressionis going to suffer as a result unless the Wizards can provide him with some decent help.
Rose is amazing. He can pass, shoot, drive, fade, drop bombs from beyond – this kid has it all. He always has one thing RW doesn’t: a proneness to injury. If Rose can stay healthy, he is the only PG I can think of that comes cose to RW athleticism.
Lawson has good fundamentals. But lacks the athleticism that RW; that’s not to say he doesn’t have any at all! He is in the NBA after all, and performing like a boss.
I look at it like this: If RW kept his athleticism and acquired Lawson’s fundamentals, or vice versa (Lawson aqcuiring RW’s athleticism), it would make the perfect PG. I think the main thing to consider when asked the question of building a team around is this: What kind of team are you going to put them in?
Lawson would dominate on a team like Miami, or even OKC. Personally I think OKC should have traded RW to Rockets instead of Harden. He is the type of player that should be the centrepiece of a team, and Durant is definitely the man at OKC, which shows in RW’s game. I think a lot of the time he is trying to play catch up to KD, which causes him to make stupid mistakes or selfish plays.
So yeah, RW is the better player overall, but needs a change of scenery to truly flourish. It’s obviously not going to happen because OKC have him locked up tight, but I believe that’s the trade that should have been made, and RW would have been a better player for it, being able to showcase his abilities without the pressure of keeping up with KD.